Pentecostal VS Other Religions

**Bren** Thu Sep 18, 2008 9:06 pm

Let's start the debate.

Guest Sat Sep 20, 2008 11:21 am

What is this about? if you're saved, you're saved. It doesn't matter what religion.

Donna Blackbeard Sat Sep 20, 2008 12:44 pm

I agree with Jennie.

And I am at unbelief with debates. Maybe because I have been to too many ugly Church business meetings.

**Bren** Sat Sep 20, 2008 3:06 pm

I lean toward the Acts 2:38 message as the plan of salvation.

Donna Blackbeard Sat Sep 20, 2008 3:10 pm

Regis (Founder) wrote:I lean toward the Acts 2:38 message as the plan of salvation.

Sorry for one word, but...

Huh?

Lost salvation and tongues?

**Bren** Sat Sep 20, 2008 3:12 pm

ok, I'll give you a chance to explain that before I comment.

Donna Blackbeard Sat Sep 20, 2008 3:13 pm

Never mind...I've got to go.

**Bren** Sat Sep 20, 2008 3:16 pm

go ahead........say what you want. That's why it's a debate.

Hannah Sat Sep 20, 2008 3:31 pm

Regis (Founder) wrote:I lean toward the Acts 2:38 message as the plan of salvation.

By that do you mean that if one is not baptized they are not saved?

For those of you who don't know what Acts 2:38 says:

Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

What about Acts 16:31?

They replied, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household."

**Bren** Sat Sep 20, 2008 3:41 pm

You still must be baptized and speak in tounges.

Hannah Sat Sep 20, 2008 4:03 pm

Regis (Founder) wrote:You still must be baptized and speak in tongues.

... to be saved?

Because, I don't speak in tongues and I wasn't baptized until last summer, though I have been saved since I was three.

1 Corinthians 12:7-11 says:

7Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. 8To one there is given through the Spirit the message of wisdom, to another the message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, 9to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, 10to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues,[a] and to still another the interpretation of tongues.[b] 11All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he gives them to each one, just as he determines.

That clearly says that "To another speaking in different kinds of tongues..." not to all

In Him,
Hannah

Danielle Abigail Maxwell Sat Sep 20, 2008 4:04 pm

Regis (Founder) wrote:You still must be baptized and speak in tounges.

You do know speaking in tongues is when the Holy Spirit speaks through you so that you can speak a language you don't know. I'm learning Spanish. I know English. For me to speak in tongues, God would use the Holy Spirit to communicate through me to others that don't speak either one of those languages. You don't HAVE to speak in tongues. It's a way God speaks through us. There is no way to learn every language. There are too many in the world.

Must be baptized... no, you don't. My sister isn't, but she will go to heaven. She believes in God, the one true God. How did the thief on the cross get the response from Christ "Today, you will be with me in paradise"? He wasn't baptized, but Jesus said he would be with him in paradise. There are many out there who have confessed Christ with their tongue, but never publicly showed their acceptance of Christ. Sometimes they don't get the chance. Baptism is only publicly showing that you've accepted Christ. You can accept CHrist. Baptism is not a factor if you are going to get to Heaven or not. You are saved through the power and sacrifice of Jesus Christ. Batpism would be under saved by works. That is not how you are saved.

Also, taking the verse out of context can prove... disheartening. There are many out there that disprove that you must do good works and be baptized to be saved. John 3:16 says clearly "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only begotten son, THAT WHOSOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM shall not perish but have everlasting life." NOWHERE in that verse does it say "whosoever believes and is baptized shall not perish but have everlasting life"... that's not anywhere in the verse. Nor in any of the verses around it, if you look in John 3.

**Bren** Sat Sep 20, 2008 4:12 pm

Here we go again.

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"Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day; and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. And ye are witnesses of these things. And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high" (Luke 24:46-49).
"But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you; and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth" (Acts 1:.

"Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost" (Acts 2:38).

"Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved" (Acts 4:12)

"As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed" (Galatians 1:9).

"And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone" (Ephesians 2:20).

"As I besought thee to abide still at Ephesus, when I went into Macedonia, that thou mightest charge some that they teach no other doctrine" (I Timothy 1:3).

"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness" (II Timothy 3:16).

Foreword

This booklet is being printed and distributed with a sincere prayer that it may strengthen and establish the believer and that it may enlighten the thousands of perplexed and bewildered souls who are earnestly seeking, amid the maze of men's traditions to find the true doctrine of our Lord Jesus Christ.

With sincerity we pray that God will grant the reader grace to accept the truth as it is in Christ Jesus.

We certainly do not want to miss heaven. Let us therefore heed the prophet's words: "Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls" (Jeremiah 6:16).

The Bible

The Bible is the inspired Word of God, giving a true history of the creation of heaven, earth, and humanity and containing a correct prophecy of the ages to come regarding heaven, earth, and the destiny of humanity. Moreover, there is no salvation outside of what is taught in its pages.

God
There is only one God (Deuteronomy 6:4). He is the creator of heaven and earth, and of all living beings. He has revealed Himself to humanity as the Father (Creator), in the son (Savior), and as the Holy Ghost (indwelling Spirit).

Father

God is a Spirit (John 4:24). He is the Eternal One, the Creator of all things, and the Father of all humanity by creation.
He is the First and the Last, and beside Him there is no God (Isaiah 44:6).
There was no God formed before Him; neither shall be there any after Him (Isaiah 43:10).

Son

Jesus is the Son of God according to the flesh (Romans 1:3) and the very God Himself according to the Spirit (Matthew 1:23). Jesus is the Christ (Matthew 16:16); the creator of all things (Colossians 1:16-17); God with us (Matthew 1:23); God made flesh (John 1:1-14); God manifested in the flesh (I Timothy 3:16);He which was, which is, and which is to come, the Almighty (Revelation 1:;the mighty God, everlasting Father, and Prince of peace (Isaiah 9:6).

Jesus Himself testified of His identity as God when He said, "He that hath seen me hath seen the Father" (John 14:7-11) and "I and my Father are one" (John 10:30).

It took shedding of blood for the remission of the sins of the world (Hebrews 9:22), but God the Father was a Spirit and had no blood to shed. Thus He prepared a body of flesh and blood (Hebrews 10:5)and came to earth as a man in order to save us, for in Isaiah 43:11 He said, "Beside me there is no Saviour." When He came in flesh the angels sang, "For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Savior, which is Christ the Lord" (Luke 2:11).

Holy Ghost

The Holy Ghost is not a third person in the Godhead, but rather the Spirit of God (the Creator), the Spirit of the resurrected Christ. The Holy Ghost comes to dwell in the hearts and lives of everyone who believes and obeys the gospel, as the comforter, Sustainer, and keeper (John 14:16-26; Romans 8:9-11).

Sin

Sin is the transgression of the law, or commandments of God (I John 3:4). The guilt of sin has fallen upon all humanity from Adam until now (Romans 3:23). The wages of sin is eternal death (Romans 6:23; Revelation 20:14) to all those who refuse to accept salvation as set forth in the Word of God.

Salvation

Salvation consists of deliverance from all sin and unrighteousness through the blood of Jesus Christ. The New Testament experience of salvation consists of repentance from sin, water baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and the baptism of the Holy Ghost, after which the Christian is to live a godly life (Acts 2:36-41).

Water Baptism

Water baptism is an essential part of New Testament salvation and not merely a symbolic ritual. It is part of entering into the kingdom of God (God's church, the bride of Christ), and therefore, it is not merely a part of local church membership. (See John 3:5; Galatians 3:27).

Mode of Baptism

Water baptism is to be administered only by immersion. Paul said, "We are buried with him [Jesus Christ] by baptism (Romans 6:4; see Colossians 2:12), Jesus came up "out of the water" (Mark 1:10), and Philip and the eunuch went down "into the water" and came up "out of the water" (Acts 8:38-39).
Jesus' death, burial, and resurrection are applied to our lives when we experience New Testament salvation: "Repent [death to sin], and be baptized [burial] every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost [resurrection]." (See Acts 2:38; Romans 6:1-7; 8:2).

Sprinkling, pouring, or infant baptism of any kind cannot be substantiated by the Word of God, but are only human traditions.

Formula for Baptism

The name in which baptism is administered is vitally important, and this name is Jesus.
Jesus' last command to His disciples was, "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost" (Matthew 28:19). We should notice that He said name (singular) not names. As previously explained, Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are not names of separate persons, but titles of positions held by God. An angelic announcement revealed God's saving name in the New Testament: "She shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins" (Matthew 1:21).

The apostles understood that Jesus was the name to use at baptism, and from the day that the church of God was established (the Day of Pentecost) until the end of their ministry, they baptized all nations (Jews--Acts 8:16; Gentiles--Acts 19:5) in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ.

In fact, Jesus is the only name given for our salvation. "Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved" (Acts 4:12).

Baptism of the Holy Ghost

The baptism of the Holy Ghost is the birth of the Spirit (John 3:5). This spiritual baptism is necessary to put someone into the kingdom of God (God's church, the bride of Christ) and is evidenced by speaking in other tongues (other languages) as the Spirit of God give utterance.

It was prophesied by Joel (Joel 2:28-29) and Isaiah (Isaiah 28:11), foretold by John the Baptist (Matthew 3:11), purchased by the blood of Jesus, and promised by Him to His disciples (John 14:26; 15:16). The Holy Ghost was first poured out on the Day of Pentecost upon the Jews (Acts 2:1-4), then upon the Samaritans (Acts 8:17), and later upon the Gentiles (Acts 10:44-46; 19:6). "The promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call" (Acts 2:39).

Tongues

Speaking in other tongues as the Spirit of God gives utterance is the manifestation God has given as the definite, indisputable, supernatural witness or sign of the baptism of the Holy Ghost (Acts 2:4; 10:46; 19:6).

It was prophesied by the prophet Isaiah as the rest and the refreshing (Isaiah 28:11-12), foretold by Jesus as a sign that would follow believers of the gospel (Mark 16:17), and experienced by Jews and Gentiles alike.

The gift of "divers kinds of tongues," mentioned by Paul in I Corinthians 12:1-12 and concerning which he gave regulations in I Corinthians 14:1-40, is given by both for self-edification (I Corinthians 14:4) and for the edification of the church (I Corinthians 14:27-28).

In church meetings the gift of tongues is used to give a public message, and it is to be interpreted. Since this gift can be misused in public, it needs proper regulation (I Corinthians 14:23-28). Not all believers exercise the gift of tongues, which is different in function from tongues given by God as the initial witness of the baptism of the Holy Ghost.

Paul said, "Forbid not to speak with tongues" (I Corinthians 14:39) and "I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all" (I Corinthians 14:. Who dares to teach or preach to the contrary?
Speaking in tongues means speaking miraculously in a language unknown to the speaker, as the Spirit gives utterance. Tongues can be classified in two ways, according to function: (1)speaking in other tongues as the initial evidence of the baptism of the Holy Ghost and (2)the gift of tongues as mentioned in I Corinthians.

Holiness

After we are saved from sin, we are commanded, "Go, and sin no more" (John 8:11).
We are commanded to live soberly, righteously, and godly in this present world (Titus 2:12) and warned that without holiness no one shall see the Lord (Hebrews 12:14).

We must present ourselves as holy unto God (Romans 12:1), cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit (II Corinthians 7:1), and separate ourselves from all worldliness (James 4:4).
If the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? (I Peter 4:18).

No one can live a holy life by his own power, but only through the Holy Spirit. "Ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you" (Acts 1:.

check out the following link for background about where this topic started.
http://www.thetoo.com/viewtopic.php?t=17647

Hannah Sat Sep 20, 2008 4:21 pm

I'll respond to the above soon, but a quick question now. Do you speak in tongues? Also, if suddenly you were unable to speak in tongues, would you consider yourself damned to hell?

As I said, I'll respond to the rest of your comments later.

~Hannah

**Bren** Sat Sep 20, 2008 4:23 pm

Yes to both questions. As for question 2 that would only happen if God left me.

Hannah Sat Sep 20, 2008 6:21 pm

Why do you believe that you can speak in tongues?

What do you believe is the benefit of speaking in tongues?

What is your opinion of those who cannot speak in tongues?

At what age were you able to speak in tongues?

At what age were you baptized?

What is your opinion of those who cannot speak in tongues?

What is your opinion of those who have not been baptized?

I'm sorry for so many questions, it's okay if you don't have time to answer them all. If you would, though please answer in this format:

What is your...?

My answer is ....

That makes it a lot easier to follow. Thanks!

In Him,
Hannah

Storm Mon Sep 22, 2008 11:49 am

Regis, you said that you were learning spanish, Does that actually mean that you speak in tongues. It would seem that to be able to speak in tongues you would need to speak it fluently?

Hannah Mon Sep 22, 2008 11:55 am

I think that it was DAM who said that she was learning Spanish.

I don't think speaking in tongues has to do with different languages.

Storm Mon Sep 22, 2008 11:57 am

Oops, my mistake

Hannah Mon Sep 22, 2008 2:10 pm

Molten'Lava wrote:Oops, my mistake

Don't worry about it =D

So, Regis, how about my questions?

Hannahjiejie wrote:Why do you believe that you can speak in tongues?

What do you believe is the benefit of speaking in tongues?

What is your opinion of those who cannot speak in tongues?

At what age were you able to speak in tongues?

At what age were you baptized?

What is your opinion of those who cannot speak in tongues?

What is your opinion of those who have not been baptized?

I'm sorry for so many questions, it's okay if you don't have time to answer them all. If you would, though please answer in this format:

What is your...?
My answer is ....

That makes it a lot easier to follow. Thanks!

In Him,
Hannah

Donna Blackbeard Wed Sep 24, 2008 11:07 am

Okay, I just don't get it. So does that mean, Regis, that although I think you are saved, you think I am going to hell? Hmm.....

I have been brought up with both Penticostal and Baptist. My mom was saved in a penicostal church, and my uncle has the same beliefs as you.

Where I am going with this, I can't remember. But, it doesn't matter what we think. And we are all entitled to our own beliefs.

God will be the judge on the Judgement seat.

Guest Sat Oct 04, 2008 5:52 pm

Dude! we are saved by faith through the grace of God who is King of Kings and Lord of Lords!

Ephesians 2:8-9 says;

For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast.

We were not saved by works man!

John 3:16 says;

For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

Were nothing to God, he could squash us like little ants, but!!! he loved us so much that he let his son die for us so that we could be saved.

Therefore;

It is not by works (being baptized or speaking in tongues) that we are saved. It is by our faith and the grace of God that we are saved. afro

Rodney Rathbone Sat Oct 04, 2008 6:52 pm

say it like you meen it dood afro

Danielle Abigail Maxwell Sat Oct 04, 2008 6:55 pm

And I totally agree Shadow!

Go read Romans Regis... that's the one book that can get you thinking.. it has me! When I get around to it, I'll post what I've learned so far...

You get salvation the moment you have faith in Christ, accept him to be your Savior. Your works don't do a thing for you... salvation happens now, not later either.

Guest Sat Oct 04, 2008 7:52 pm

Dude! The bible is like the ultimate guide to everything! afro

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